By Elena Durnbaugh
Gongwer News Service
Tuesday’s House Oversight Committee, with House Republican attorneys presenting binders of evidence and walking through timelines with committee members, had the appearance of a courtroom trial.
The committee had its second hearing on the case of Traci Kornak, a personal injury lawyer and former treasurer for the Michigan Democratic Party, and her dealings as the conservator for the now-deceased Rose Burd.
Despite appearances, Committee Chair Rep. Jay DeBoyer, R-Clay, said the goal was not to mimic criminal proceedings.
“The reason that the Oversight Committee needs to hear this stuff is because of what our role is: Our role is to oversee governmental agencies, governmental entities and governmental departments,” DeBoyer told the committee. “This was a case that was closed by the attorney general’s office involving an individual who was not only a close associate of the attorney general, she was on the attorney general’s transition team….based on my reading of this information… the attorney general’s office is one of two things: It is either wholly incompetent, or it is corrupt.”
DeBoyer said his objective is not to go after Attorney General Dana Nessel. His goal, and the goal of the Oversight Committee, is to determine if the state needs stronger laws in place when it comes to conflicts of interest or firewalls.
“If you want the people of the state of Michigan to have confidence in what we do, you have to get rid of even the appearance,” he said. “That is a legitimate legislative purpose.”
Even one case is enough to show that stronger laws may be necessary, DeBoyer said.
“Our goal should be to make it better. And if one single case demonstrates a hole in it, we should fix that hole,” he said. “It’s the old adage, ‘who watches the watcher?’”
DeBoyer said he believes that the attorney general’s office attempted to police themselves, but he did not believe that intent matters to the public.
“We already know how skeptical (the public) are… and then they don’t trust us all, and we’re all criminals and we’re all thieves,” he said. “It’s incumbent upon us to stand up and go, ‘Wait a minute. Let’s put some things in place that are clear.’”
Several Democratic members of the committee asked whether attorneys from the Attorney General’s Office who worked on the case would ever testify before the committee. DeBoyer said he thought, at this point in the proceedings, it would be a good idea.
Rep. Reggie Miller, D-Van Buren Township, also asked why Kornak herself had not testified before the committee.
“This is about Traci Kornak, the majority of what we’re talking about here,” Miller said. “Why aren’t we hearing from her?”
DeBoyer said although he would love to have Kornak testify, she was still under investigation by the Kent County Sheriff’s Office and the Kent County Prosecutor's Office, as well as under audit by the probate court in Allegan County.
“So, I do not believe we should be putting her in front of us while those agencies are attempting to do their work,” he said. “We don’t have criminal authority on Ms. Kornak.”
DeBoyer said the goal is to use the circumstances around Kornak as a case study for legislative recommendations.
Rep. Laurie Pohutsky, D-Livonia, underscored that the committee has no role in the criminal proceedings.
“There’s separation of powers, that is a court proceeding, and I don’t think we have a role in that,” she said. “There has been a lot of focus on Traci Kornak, and we are not going to do anything with her case, because that is not our role, but I do think that some of that information is helpful in terms of determining if there is an oversight role here.”
DeBoyer said that the Oversight Committee’s hearings were unlikely to have an effect on the proceedings in Kent County.
“Every that we’ve presented is out there and available,” he said.
The case in Kent County is waiting on a forensic audit, and nothing that has unfolded in the House’s proceedings will affect that outcome, DeBoyer said.
Pohutsky said that the House Oversight Committee was also unlikely to influence a jury.
“In the grand scheme of things, the amount of media coverage that these hearings are getting is probably dwarfed in terms of other cases that are covered by the media in a much more consistent manner,” she said.
Pohutsky said that although she felt there was a partisan bent to some of the presentation of the case, there was something to be gained from examining the issue.
“I think that there is an underlying issue that goes beyond partisanship,” Pohutsky said. “There’s still court proceedings happening, but something suspicious happened at a bare minimum, and based on the previous hearing, I do think that there needs to be some answers provided from the attorney general.”
Rep. Dylan Wegela, D-Garden City, said although he agreed it was likely there would be things in the Kornak case that the court would find to be in violation of the law, he hoped to move to the point where the House Oversight Committee was making policy recommendations.
“I hope at some point, as Oversight, we look to how do we provide more oversight on conservatorships and guardianships,” Wegela said.
DeBoyer said there are discussions about bills happening behind the scenes, and Pohutsky added that those conversations take time, citing the time it took for the Legislature to develop financial disclosure policy.
“Don’t forget what our role as the Oversight Committee is,” DeBoyer said to members just before the meeting adjourned. “It is to look into things, find people accountable, make determinations based on the best evidence available to us, and then perhaps recommend legislative changes.”
Gongwer News Service
Tuesday’s House Oversight Committee, with House Republican attorneys presenting binders of evidence and walking through timelines with committee members, had the appearance of a courtroom trial.
The committee had its second hearing on the case of Traci Kornak, a personal injury lawyer and former treasurer for the Michigan Democratic Party, and her dealings as the conservator for the now-deceased Rose Burd.
Despite appearances, Committee Chair Rep. Jay DeBoyer, R-Clay, said the goal was not to mimic criminal proceedings.
“The reason that the Oversight Committee needs to hear this stuff is because of what our role is: Our role is to oversee governmental agencies, governmental entities and governmental departments,” DeBoyer told the committee. “This was a case that was closed by the attorney general’s office involving an individual who was not only a close associate of the attorney general, she was on the attorney general’s transition team….based on my reading of this information… the attorney general’s office is one of two things: It is either wholly incompetent, or it is corrupt.”
DeBoyer said his objective is not to go after Attorney General Dana Nessel. His goal, and the goal of the Oversight Committee, is to determine if the state needs stronger laws in place when it comes to conflicts of interest or firewalls.
“If you want the people of the state of Michigan to have confidence in what we do, you have to get rid of even the appearance,” he said. “That is a legitimate legislative purpose.”
Even one case is enough to show that stronger laws may be necessary, DeBoyer said.
“Our goal should be to make it better. And if one single case demonstrates a hole in it, we should fix that hole,” he said. “It’s the old adage, ‘who watches the watcher?’”
DeBoyer said he believes that the attorney general’s office attempted to police themselves, but he did not believe that intent matters to the public.
“We already know how skeptical (the public) are… and then they don’t trust us all, and we’re all criminals and we’re all thieves,” he said. “It’s incumbent upon us to stand up and go, ‘Wait a minute. Let’s put some things in place that are clear.’”
Several Democratic members of the committee asked whether attorneys from the Attorney General’s Office who worked on the case would ever testify before the committee. DeBoyer said he thought, at this point in the proceedings, it would be a good idea.
Rep. Reggie Miller, D-Van Buren Township, also asked why Kornak herself had not testified before the committee.
“This is about Traci Kornak, the majority of what we’re talking about here,” Miller said. “Why aren’t we hearing from her?”
DeBoyer said although he would love to have Kornak testify, she was still under investigation by the Kent County Sheriff’s Office and the Kent County Prosecutor's Office, as well as under audit by the probate court in Allegan County.
“So, I do not believe we should be putting her in front of us while those agencies are attempting to do their work,” he said. “We don’t have criminal authority on Ms. Kornak.”
DeBoyer said the goal is to use the circumstances around Kornak as a case study for legislative recommendations.
Rep. Laurie Pohutsky, D-Livonia, underscored that the committee has no role in the criminal proceedings.
“There’s separation of powers, that is a court proceeding, and I don’t think we have a role in that,” she said. “There has been a lot of focus on Traci Kornak, and we are not going to do anything with her case, because that is not our role, but I do think that some of that information is helpful in terms of determining if there is an oversight role here.”
DeBoyer said that the Oversight Committee’s hearings were unlikely to have an effect on the proceedings in Kent County.
“Every that we’ve presented is out there and available,” he said.
The case in Kent County is waiting on a forensic audit, and nothing that has unfolded in the House’s proceedings will affect that outcome, DeBoyer said.
Pohutsky said that the House Oversight Committee was also unlikely to influence a jury.
“In the grand scheme of things, the amount of media coverage that these hearings are getting is probably dwarfed in terms of other cases that are covered by the media in a much more consistent manner,” she said.
Pohutsky said that although she felt there was a partisan bent to some of the presentation of the case, there was something to be gained from examining the issue.
“I think that there is an underlying issue that goes beyond partisanship,” Pohutsky said. “There’s still court proceedings happening, but something suspicious happened at a bare minimum, and based on the previous hearing, I do think that there needs to be some answers provided from the attorney general.”
Rep. Dylan Wegela, D-Garden City, said although he agreed it was likely there would be things in the Kornak case that the court would find to be in violation of the law, he hoped to move to the point where the House Oversight Committee was making policy recommendations.
“I hope at some point, as Oversight, we look to how do we provide more oversight on conservatorships and guardianships,” Wegela said.
DeBoyer said there are discussions about bills happening behind the scenes, and Pohutsky added that those conversations take time, citing the time it took for the Legislature to develop financial disclosure policy.
“Don’t forget what our role as the Oversight Committee is,” DeBoyer said to members just before the meeting adjourned. “It is to look into things, find people accountable, make determinations based on the best evidence available to us, and then perhaps recommend legislative changes.”
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